Posts by bats in the belfry

106

Is it possible for an apostate to get reindoctrinated?

by foolsparadise in

jw
friends

and if so why?.

bats in the belfry

WTS answer: "Go to hell, all you wicked apostates"

Apostates of the apostles’ day and their modern counterparts are not represented by the “weeds.” Yet the Bible shows that such apostates are “not of our sort,” have God’s disapproval and should be shunned by loyal Christians. Any who apostatize and do not repent by the end of this system of things will experience the same fate as the “weeds,” being “burned with fire” or destroyed completely.—Titus 3:10; 1 John 2:18, 19; 2 John 9-11.

w84 3/1 p.31

Since we have been warned that “some will fall away from the faith,” we should be ready “to put up a hard fight for the faith that was once for all time delivered to the holy ones.” (1 Tim. 4:1; Jude 3) But a distinction needs to be made between trouble-making apostates, as mentioned in 2 Peter, chapter 2, and Christians who become weak in faith and have doubts through lack of accurate knowledge. Jude makes this distinction. After warning against “murmurers, complainers,” who “are admiring personalities,” and against “ridiculers,” who “are the ones that make separations,” he says: “Keep yourselves in God’s love, while you are waiting for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ with everlasting life in view. Also, continue showing mercy to some that have doubts; save them by snatching them out of the fire.”—Jude 16-23.

w80 8/1 p.21 par.19

In chapter two Peter champions God’s truth and righteous principles by speaking out strongly against apostates. These with counterfeit words seek to exploit their fellow Christians. Rightly they will suffer the same kind of fate that befell the wicked antediluvian world and the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah. But people of godly devotion will be preserved just as Noah and his family were. Those false teachers follow the mercenary path of Balaam. By their fleshly desires and loose habits they offer others greater freedom while actually they themselves are slaves of corruption. Having once known the truth and turned away from it, they are in a worse condition than they would have been had they never known the path of righteousness.—2 Pet. 2:1-22.

w76 10/15 p.639

4

Which Bible doctrines are incontestably established on scriptural evidence alone?

by bats in the belfry in

just asking: is it just the 10 commandments?

or jesus' teachings of the beatitudes?.

bats in the belfry

wobble > I've been coming across the phraseology "unscriptural teaching" on their WT CD quite a few times, i.e.:

...the majority of churches teach the unscriptural doctrine that man has an immortal soul that survives death and lives on in the spirit realm.

...it is perhaps a reflection of the perplexity that this unscriptural doctrine aroused that Limbo has been eliminated from the most recent Catholic catechisms.

...Jesus did not confine his works of physical healing to people with faith. (John 5:5-9, 13) So his activity gives no support to the unscriptural doctrine of faith healing.

...it gradually crept into apostate Christendom in the third and fourth centuries of our Common Era. Especially was this the case after the year 325 C.E. when the Council of Nicaea adopted the unscriptural doctrine that Christ was God.

...Protestants are also part of a religious system that includes in its theology the unscriptural doctrine of God-inflicted eternal torment.

...what about Christians today? The fact is that there is no Bible command for or against either burial or cremation. Nor usually does burial instead of cremation help to distinguish true Christians from believers in the pagan idea of an immortal soul; today some of the chief adherents of that unscriptural doctrine are found among churchgoers who normally bury their dead.

...further, the Socinians found the doctrine’s so-called Scriptural supports to be quite weak.

...it is incontestable that the doctrine cannot be established on scriptural evidence alone.

In contrast to which is deemed an "unscriptural teaching" by WTS , which Bible doctrine(s) stand on their own, without any elaborate reference works of heathen origin?

4

Which Bible doctrines are incontestably established on scriptural evidence alone?

by bats in the belfry in

just asking: is it just the 10 commandments?

or jesus' teachings of the beatitudes?.

bats in the belfry

Just asking: Is it just the 10 commandments? Or Jesus' teachings of the beatitudes?

12

Did a 'copy and paste' of Annual Meeting Notes done previously

by Gayle in

jw
friends

i know this was not opening up for other about: (hope works this time)transcript of annual meeting notes and events from unknown source by itsibitsybrainbutbigenoughtosmellarattoday, october 12, 2011, 4 hours ago .

october 1, 2011 annual meeting of watch tower bible and tract society of pennsylvania at the jersey city assembly hall .

the meeting began with the singing of song #28 the new song followed by the opening prayer.

bats in the belfry

Steve Lett: "Lions are exceedingly strong. You cannot stand up against them in battle. You will lose. The Devil is a strong spirit creature. You cannot stand up against him in battle. Unless Jehovah is in your life you WILL lose!"

Gosh, don't these people ever read their own Bible?

(Judges 14:5-6) 5 Accordingly Samson went on down with his father and his mother to Tim´nah. When he got as far as the vineyards of Tim´nah, why, look! a maned young lion roaring upon meeting him. 6 Then Jehovah’s spirit became operative upon him, so that he tore it in two, just as someone tears a male kid in two, and there was nothing at all in his hand. And he did not tell his father or his mother what he had done.

35 And I went out after it and struck it down and made the rescue from its mouth. When it began rising against me, I grabbed hold of its beard and struck it down and put it to death. 36 Both the lion and the bear your servant struck down; . . .

(1 Chronicles 11:22) 22 As for Be·nai´ah the son of Je·hoi´a·da, the son of a valiant man, who did many deeds in Kab´ze·el, he himself struck down the two [sons] of Ar´i·el of Mo´ab; and he himself descended and struck down a lion inside a waterpit in the day of snowfall.

3

Is there a list of WTS Branch Office shutdowns available?

by bats in the belfry in

jw
friends

it appears so many offices are being sold, it is not easy to keep up with their liquidity.. has someone already compiled a list of these closures?

wts appears to suffer a real revenue tailspin, and the "waters are definitely drying up".

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/commercialproperty/2011/1012/1224305632482.html.

bats in the belfry

It appears so many offices are being sold, it is not easy to keep up with their liquidity.

Has someone already compiled a list of these closures? WTS appears to suffer a real revenue tailspin, and the "waters are definitely drying up".

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/commercialproperty/2011/1012/1224305632482.html

15

Gilead school was built as an Armagedon bombshelter for Bethelites!

by Witness 007 in

rutherford's book "enemies in 1937 said america would become a fascist catholic country and start armagedon...so where do you hide the bethel family?.

watch 82 8/15 p.10 "...for the safety of the bethel family a place was built in south lansing new york...it was never needed for that purpose...later transformed into a missionary school...".

watch 81 12/15 p.28 "rutherford believed that intense persecution against the witnesses may require them to leave headquarters...thus he built a building in upstate new york that could be used to house the bethel family...".

bats in the belfry

blondie > I don't believe it until I see it - I do not see a picture at all. Pls provide or reference to it if you can. Thank you.

42

January 2012 WT Study edition on PDF pulled from JW.org website

by bnybyt in

the wt study edition is getting a facelift for the new year.. the january issue had been posted on jw.org but.... the boes hadn't received notice by letter of such a change.. the wts likes to play up every opportunity to have a new release.. this time the jw.org techies jumped the gun and went on to post.

the issues for download according to their established schedule.. unfortunately, they went ahead of the fds/gb who too late .

realized the cat was out of the bag, sort of saying.. well, it got pulled off the website, for now at least.. what's so secretive about it?.

bats in the belfry

Q.: Is it just me, or do I see the page margins getting wider? And the amount of pictures more abundantly?

I surmise: They nothing much have to tell us anymore.

10

Timothy T: The Anointed and Me

by compound complex in

jw
friends

i have never had any personal help from a member of the fds apart from what i read in the literature... which was very little because id rather read the bible.

even as a jw, if i had any encouragement it came from the elders or the bible.

they were the ones that did the hard work and cared.

bats in the belfry

CoCo >

Nowadays, Samuel Herd, member of the current Governing Body,

personally will befriend ordinary believers of the 'footlocker' class,

as seen in this recent snapshot. w11 12/15, p. 26

43

Shunning..... at Meetings ???

by IMHO in

jw
friends

can someone explain why jws shun disfellowshipped ones when they are at their meetings (i.e.

making moves to come back)?.

i can understand why you may not want to 'socialize' with ones who do not share your beliefs.. but surely shunning such ones at the 'meetings'; assuming they are not there to cause trouble, is unloving; should they not be welcomed like the prodigal son.. true christians are known by the 'love' they show.

bats in the belfry

Home brew rules & regulations:

Regarding the relationship between husband and wife, Jesus’ words at Matthew 19:5,6 must be adhered to. No one can set apart man and wife, not even if one of the two is disfellowshiped. The exception, of course, is where adultery has been committed. Then the innocent mate may depart if so desired. (Matt. 19:9) When attending congregation meetings at the Kingdom Hall, husband and wife, together with children, are to remain together and not be separated because one is disfellowshiped. There is no spiritual communication involved here. They are merely sitting together as a family. This family bond must not be tampered with. However, it would be improper for the mate in good standing to try to force the company of the disfellowshiped mate on other brothers in the congregation when conversing with them. While the family unit stays together, the excommunicated member of the family still may not associate with other members of the congregation.

w63 7/15 p. 445

49

told my parents to never ever tell me they love me again....

by oompa in

jw
friends

...i told them in a very serious sitdown in their living room....said..."because if you cant show it then it does not count...that is not real love no matter who tells you it is....because it is how it makes me feel that determines if it is love....not if you just say it...and me and my sons do not feel that love at all now"....and i stayed calm and talked slowly and barely shed a tear as i held them back...and i had asked them to not say a word but just listen...dad said they would as long as it was not about religion as i knew he would.

this was two of the worst days of my life in a row..i told them the pain me and my boys feel from their shunning is worse than if they had died...that then i could grieve naturally and move on because that is normal....grief helps you cope...my grief is different because they choose to act like i am dead and normal grief does not seem to work on that.

i shared an epiphany with them i had about mens rules vs gods great idea of dna (but no i am not sure about a god anymore)it went kinda like this:.

bats in the belfry

...take comfort in their very own teaching!

THESE OUGHT TO KNOW BETTER

Some professed Christians are oh so kind and forgiving toward persons outside the Christian congregation who commit some trespass. But let their Christian brother become guilty of the same misdeed against them, and, instead of showing the same mercy, these become cold as ice and as hard as stone. To justify their hardheartedness, they will often say these ought to know better, whereas we have to make allowances for people outside because they do not know any better. So they show no love to their brother. Jesus classed these unforgiving ones with the scribes, Pharisees and hypocrites, saying, You “have disregarded the weightier matters of the Law, namely, judgment and mercy and faithfulness.” (Matt. 23:23, NW) Instead of saying he should have known better, perhaps it would be better to say, He is still weak and imperfect in the flesh, as we all are. Paul shows that could be quite possible.—Rom. 7:15-25.

If we show a hardhearted attitude we bar out God from showing us mercy. “With the merciful thou wilt shew thyself merciful; with an upright man thou wilt shew thyself upright.” (Ps. 18:25) Do we have grounds for refusing mercy to fellow brothers because, in our view, these should have known better? Let us apply the same rule to ourselves and reason that God will henceforth not forgive us or be patient with us because we, too, should know better, now that we have come into the truth.

There is an opposite side to this too. If we withhold mercy it will be withheld from us. To add mercy to others is to have it added to us. To multiply mercy toward others means that it will be multiplied in an even greater abundance to us. “With the measure that you are measuring out they will measure out to you.” (Matt. 7:2, NW) To withhold mercy is to be cruel.

Wicked men are without mercy. “But the tender mercies of the wicked are cruel.” (Prov. 12:10) In the illustration of the unforgiving slave, the one who withheld mercy from his fellow slave had it withheld from himself in turn. The unmerciful slave the master called wicked. “Wicked slave, I canceled all that debt for you, when you entreated me. Ought you not, in turn, to have had mercy on your fellow slave, as I also had mercy on you?” Jesus added: “In like manner my heavenly Father will also deal with you if you do not forgive each one his brother from your hearts.” (Matt. 18:32-35, NW) “For the one that does not practice mercy will have his judgment without mercy.”—Jas. 2:13, NW.

Mercy for the Merciful / w53 11/15 pp. 682-683